Return-Path: Received: from hermes30.mail.cornell.edu (hermes30.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.55]) by lnscu5.lns.cornell.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id m2509Soc026224 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 2008 19:09:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from poppy.mail.cornell.edu (poppy.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.48]) by hermes30.mail.cornell.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id m2506xgK029512 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 2008 19:07:03 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by poppy.mail.cornell.edu (8.13.6/8.12.6) id m2506qKR005695 for palmer@mail.lns.cornell.edu; Tue, 4 Mar 2008 19:06:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ironport1.lbl.gov (poppy_tc [10.236.56.9]) by poppy.mail.cornell.edu (8.13.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id m2505RSg004977 for map36@cornell.edu; Tue, 4 Mar 2008 19:06:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ironport1.lbl.gov (ironport1.lbl.gov [128.3.41.47]) by 132.236.56.9; Tue, 4 Mar 2008 19:06:49 -0500 X-Ironport-SBRS: 3.5 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAGtzzUeAAykMh2dsb2JhbACCOjQliiyDMwEBAQgKKYENnAqBfQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.25,444,1199692800"; d="scan'208,217";a="94859286" Received: from mta2.lbl.gov ([128.3.41.12]) by ironport1.lbl.gov with ESMTP; 04 Mar 2008 16:06:45 -0800 Received: from [131.243.171.12] (Zisman-XP.dhcp.lbl.gov [131.243.171.12]) by mta2.lbl.gov (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2506iRI005661; Tue, 4 Mar 2008 16:06:44 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47CDE41D.3080002@lbl.gov> Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 16:06:53 -0800 X-PH: V4.1@poppy From: "Michael S. Zisman" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Mark A. Palmer" , Junji Urakawa , Andy Wolski , "guiducci@lnf.infn.it" Subject: [Fwd: RE: This Week's Damping Ring Discussions at the Sendai GDE Meeting] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------040908070409000604080600" X-Original-IP: 128.3.41.47 X-Original-Hostname: ironport1.lbl.gov X-PMX-Version: 5.3.3.310218, Antispam-Engine: 2.5.2.313940, Antispam-Data: 2008.3.4.155250 X-PMX-CORNELL-SPAM-CHECKED: poppy X-DCC-CULNS-Metrics: lnscu5.lns.cornell.edu 9999; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040908070409000604080600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks: I do think there is merit in Craig's comments. In practice, I think it means that you should try to keep the FODO5 lattice "alive" until there is an opportunity to do a cost comparison. Insofar as we suspect that the DCO lattice will be less expensive, there should be no objection to using it as the baseline, with the FODO5 lattice serving as backup. From an engineering perspective, that probably means doing a bottom-up cost estimate for the DCO version with subsequent "deltas" to assess the relative costs of FODO5. This could even be a management milestone at some point, say one year from now. ...something to consider. Cheers, Mike -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: This Week's Damping Ring Discussions at the Sendai GDE Meeting Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 12:50:07 -0800 From: Burkhart, Craig P To: Mark A. Palmer , ilcdr@lbl.gov References: <47CB6B12.5040200@cornell.edu> <47CD13B2.9000609@cornell.edu> Mark, Unfortunately, I had to leave yesterday's discussion just as you started into the evaluation table. My interpretation of the Table and the comments that have been subsequently exchanged is that all four approaches are technically sound, the DCO is marginally superior to either FODO and the OSC8 is marginally inferior. That said, cost should then become a primary concern. There are clearly cost components in the evaluation, but since the technically merits of the competing systems are similar shouldn't a greater weighting be placed on cost? If you conclude that the present evaluation places sufficient weight on cost, I certainly support your conclusions. Craig ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From:* owner-ilcdr@lbl.gov [mailto:owner-ilcdr@lbl.gov] *On Behalf Of *Mark A. Palmer *Sent:* Tuesday, March 04, 2008 1:18 AM *To:* ilcdr@lbl.gov *Subject:* Re: This Week's Damping Ring Discussions at the Sendai GDE Meeting Hi All, The attached note summarizes today's lattice evaluation session at the Sendai meeting. The relative ratings among the lattices is quite close demonstrating the amount of effort that went into each design. At this point, we would appreciate comments from all interested parties on the ratings that were applied. Please use "Reply All" when responding to ensure that everyone is able to view your responses. Also, please submit your comments within the next 24 hours since this evaluation needs to be presented to the Project Managers before the end of the workshop on Thursday. At this point we would like to thank all of those who participated in the lattice design effort for all of their hard work. Thanks, Mark, Andy and Junji Mark A. Palmer wrote: > Hi All, > > The damping rings sessions at this week's Sendai GDE meeting will all > be accessible via WebEx. The agenda is available from the TILC08 > web-site (follow the > Program link from the homepage): > > http://www.awa.tohoku.ac.jp/TILC08/index.html > > In particular, we would like to point out that Tuesday morning's > discussion will focus on the selection of a baseline DR lattice. > Everyone is strongly encouraged to participate in this discussion. > > WebEx connection details for Tuesday and Wednesday in Sendai will be > forwarded in two subsequent emails. > > Please join us, > Mark Palmer & Junji Urakawa > > Tuesday DR Sessions: >> Junji Urakawa invites you to attend this online meeting. >> >> Topic: Sendai-GDE-DR >> Date: Tuesday, March 4, 2008 >> Time: 8:00 am, Japan Standard Time (GMT +09:00, Tokyo ) >> Meeting Number: 592 633 345 >> Meeting Password: ilcdr >> >> Please click the link below to see more information, or to join the >> meeting. >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> To join the online meeting >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> 1. Go to >> https://fnal.webex.com/fnal/j.php?ED=103458137&UID=1013632142 >> >> 2. Enter your name and email address. >> 3. Enter the meeting password: ilcdr >> 4. Click "Join". >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> To join the teleconference only >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> Provide your phone number when you join the meeting to receive a call >> back. Or, call the number below and enter the meeting number. >> Call-in toll-free number (US/Canada): 866-469-3239 >> Call-in toll number (US/Canada): 650-429-3300 >> Global call-in numbers: >> https://fnal.webex.com/fnal/globalcallin.php?serviceType=MC&ED=103458137&tollFree=1 >> >> >> Toll-free dialing restrictions: >> http://www.webex.com/pdf/tollfree_restrictions.pdf >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> For assistance >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> 1. Go to https://fnal.webex.com/fnal/mc >> 2. Click "Assistance". >> 3. Click "Support". >> >> You can contact me at: >> junji.urakawa@kek.jp >> >> >> To add this meeting to your calendar program (for example Microsoft >> Outlook), click this link: >> https://fnal.webex.com/fnal/j.php?ED=103458137&UID=1013632142&ICS=MI&LD=1&RD=2&ST=1&SHA2=5grgexGrFaE7Kv/Xcn1I5ErtS-DrBzzsYXKuiHYv13U= >> >> >> >> The host requests that you check for compatibility of rich media >> players for Universal Communications Format (UCF) before you join the >> session. UCF allows you to view multimedia during the session. To >> check now, click the following link: >> https://fnal.webex.com/fnal/systemdiagnosis.php >> >> Sign up for a free trial of WebEx >> http://www.webex.com/go/mcemfreetrial >> >> http://www.webex.com >> We've got to start meeting like this(TM) >> >> IMPORTANT NOTICE: This WebEx service includes a feature that allows >> audio and any documents and other materials exchanged or viewed >> during the session to be recorded. By joining this session, you >> automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not consent to >> the recording, do not join the session. > > _____________________________________________________________________ > Mark A. Palmer LEPP Accelerator Group > E-Mail: map36@cornell.edu US Mail: 222 R.R. Wilson Laboratory > Voice : (607)255-4240 Cornell University > FAX : (607)255-8062 Ithaca, NY 14853-8001 > > > > > > > > -- _____________________________________________________________________ Mark A. Palmer LEPP Accelerator Group E-Mail: map36@cornell.edu US Mail: 222 R.R. Wilson Laboratory Voice : (607)255-4240 Cornell University FAX : (607)255-8062 Ithaca, NY 14853-8001 --------------040908070409000604080600 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks:

  I do think there is merit in Craig's comments. In practice, I think it means that you should try to keep the FODO5 lattice "alive" until there is an opportunity to do a cost comparison. Insofar as we suspect that the DCO lattice will be less expensive, there should be no objection to using it as the baseline, with the FODO5 lattice serving as backup. From an engineering perspective, that probably means doing a bottom-up cost estimate for the DCO version with subsequent "deltas" to assess the relative costs of FODO5. This could even be a management milestone at some point, say one year from now.

 ...something to consider.

Cheers,
Mike

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: This Week's Damping Ring Discussions at the Sendai GDE Meeting
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 12:50:07 -0800
From: Burkhart, Craig P <burkhart@slac.stanford.edu>
To: Mark A. Palmer <map36@cornell.edu>, ilcdr@lbl.gov
References: <47CB6B12.5040200@cornell.edu> <47CD13B2.9000609@cornell.edu>


Mark,
 
Unfortunately, I had to leave yesterday's discussion just as you started into the evaluation table.  My interpretation of the Table and the comments that have been subsequently exchanged is that all four approaches are technically sound, the DCO is marginally superior to either FODO and the OSC8 is marginally inferior.
 
That said, cost should then become a primary concern.  There are clearly cost components in the evaluation, but since the technically merits of the competing systems are similar shouldn't a greater weighting be placed on cost?
 
If you conclude that the present evaluation places sufficient weight on cost, I certainly support your conclusions.
 
 
Craig

From: owner-ilcdr@lbl.gov [mailto:owner-ilcdr@lbl.gov] On Behalf Of Mark A. Palmer
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 1:18 AM
To: ilcdr@lbl.gov
Subject: Re: This Week's Damping Ring Discussions at the Sendai GDE Meeting

Hi All,

The attached note summarizes today's lattice evaluation session at the Sendai meeting.  The relative ratings among the lattices is quite close demonstrating the amount of effort that went into each design.  At this point, we would appreciate comments from all interested parties on the ratings that were applied.  Please use "Reply All" when responding to ensure that everyone is able to view your responses.  Also, please submit your comments within the next 24 hours since this evaluation needs to be presented to the Project Managers before the end of the workshop on Thursday.

At this point we would like to thank all of those who participated in the lattice design effort for all of their hard work.

Thanks,
Mark, Andy and Junji

Mark A. Palmer wrote:
Hi All,

The damping rings sessions at this week's Sendai GDE meeting will all be accessible via WebEx.  The agenda is available from the TILC08 web-site (follow the
Program link from the homepage): 

http://www.awa.tohoku.ac.jp/TILC08/index.html

In particular, we would like to point out that Tuesday morning's discussion will focus on the selection of a baseline DR lattice.  Everyone is strongly encouraged to participate in this discussion. 

WebEx connection details for Tuesday and Wednesday in Sendai will be forwarded in two subsequent emails.

Please join us,
Mark Palmer & Junji Urakawa

Tuesday DR Sessions:
Junji Urakawa invites you to attend this online meeting.

Topic: Sendai-GDE-DR
Date: Tuesday, March 4, 2008
Time: 8:00 am, Japan Standard Time (GMT +09:00, Tokyo )
Meeting Number: 592 633 345
Meeting Password: ilcdr

Please click the link below to see more information, or to join the meeting.

-------------------------------------------------------
To join the online meeting
-------------------------------------------------------
1. Go to https://fnal.webex.com/fnal/j.php?ED=103458137&UID=1013632142
2. Enter your name and email address.
3. Enter the meeting password: ilcdr
4. Click "Join".

-------------------------------------------------------
To join the teleconference only
-------------------------------------------------------
Provide your phone number when you join the meeting to receive a call back. Or, call the number below and enter the meeting number.
Call-in toll-free number (US/Canada): 866-469-3239
Call-in toll number (US/Canada): 650-429-3300
Global call-in numbers: https://fnal.webex.com/fnal/globalcallin.php?serviceType=MC&ED=103458137&tollFree=1
Toll-free dialing restrictions: http://www.webex.com/pdf/tollfree_restrictions.pdf

-------------------------------------------------------
For assistance
-------------------------------------------------------
1. Go to https://fnal.webex.com/fnal/mc
2. Click "Assistance".
3. Click "Support".

You can contact me at:
junji.urakawa@kek.jp


To add this meeting to your calendar program (for example Microsoft Outlook), click this link:
https://fnal.webex.com/fnal/j.php?ED=103458137&UID=1013632142&ICS=MI&LD=1&RD=2&ST=1&SHA2=5grgexGrFaE7Kv/Xcn1I5ErtS-DrBzzsYXKuiHYv13U=

The host requests that you check for compatibility of rich media players for Universal Communications Format (UCF) before you join the session. UCF allows you to view multimedia during the session. To check now, click the following link:
https://fnal.webex.com/fnal/systemdiagnosis.php

Sign up for a free trial of WebEx
http://www.webex.com/go/mcemfreetrial

http://www.webex.com
We've got to start meeting like this(TM)

IMPORTANT NOTICE: This WebEx service includes a feature that allows audio and any documents and other materials exchanged or viewed during the session to be recorded. By joining this session, you automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not consent to the recording, do not join the session. 

_____________________________________________________________________
Mark A. Palmer                    LEPP Accelerator Group
E-Mail: map36@cornell.edu         US Mail: 222 R.R. Wilson Laboratory
Voice : (607)255-4240                      Cornell University
FAX   : (607)255-8062                      Ithaca, NY  14853-8001 







  

-- 
_____________________________________________________________________
Mark A. Palmer                    LEPP Accelerator Group
E-Mail: map36@cornell.edu         US Mail: 222 R.R. Wilson Laboratory
Voice : (607)255-4240                      Cornell University
FAX   : (607)255-8062                      Ithaca, NY  14853-8001
--------------040908070409000604080600--